Request for Passkey Unlock Method Information to Enhance User Experience

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Vladyslav Bondarenko

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Feb 27, 2025, 7:49:43 PMFeb 27
to FIDO Dev (fido-dev)

Dear FIDO Dev Group,

I am writing to propose an enhancement to the passkey authentication process, with the goal of improving user experience without compromising security.

During integration of passkeys, I noticed that both Android and iOS allow users to unlock passkeys using their device PIN. It's well known that some users may choose weak PINs, which could potentially create a security vulnerability if the device is stolen. However, biometric authentication provides a stronger level of assurance.

To address this, I suggest that operating systems provide developers with information about the method used to unlock the passkey (pattern/PIN/biometrics). This would enable developers to tailor authentication requirements accordingly. For instance, if a PIN was used, an additional authentication factor could be requested, whereas biometrics might not necessitate this. Currently, this information is not made available to developers. I believe that making this a standard would significantly improve the user experience while maintaining robust security.

Thank you for considering this proposal.

Tim Cappalli

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Feb 27, 2025, 9:15:14 PMFeb 27
to Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev)
Hi, this would be a request for the WebAuthn WG. 

This has been proposed in the past, and was added to the spec, but was ultimately not implemented by clients, and thus ultimately removed from the spec due to lack of implementations. 

It was not implemented by many clients due to concerns about ecosystem fragmentation and leaving some users stranded without a strong authentication method and severely impacting the user experience. A device PIN is valid in most regulatory contexts as a user verification method (activation secret).

In workforce scenarios, however, there are options available including traditional attestation + MDS lookup and also managed authenticator preconfiguration.

tim

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My1

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Feb 27, 2025, 10:15:36 PMFeb 27
to Tim Cappalli, Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev)
Also in the end one problem is that with the pin you can change the fingerprints and stuff, and then it gets fun, and you can't just lock a user out of all their passkeys because they are on a new phone or added a fingerprint. That kinda goes against the entire point. 

Vladyslav Bondarenko

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Feb 28, 2025, 12:49:06 PMFeb 28
to FIDO Dev (fido-dev), My1, Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), Tim Cappalli
Thanks team for your prompt and informative response!

To clarify, I'm not suggesting disabling PIN method to unlock passkey. I propose that OS provides information on which unlock method was used (PIN or biometrics). Apps could then decide how to challenge the user further, if needed. No OS-level locking is suggested; it's about giving apps more context.

If this should be a request for the WebAuthn WG, do you know any appropriate communication channel where this request can be raised?

Tim Cappalli

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Feb 28, 2025, 1:00:09 PMFeb 28
to Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), My1
Yes, I understand. That is the capability that was in WebAuthn but was not implemented and thus removed from the spec. 

As of Fall 2024, there is not an appetite from implementers to implement this capability (repeating only what was discussed in the WG only as an editor of the spec, not the implementers themselves).

tim

Vladyslav Bondarenko

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Feb 28, 2025, 4:12:34 PMFeb 28
to FIDO Dev (fido-dev), Tim Cappalli, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), My1, Vladyslav Bondarenko
I see. It looks like contacting Google/Apple is the only option left, seeing if they can come back to initial plans.

Thank you, team!

Pro Coder 101

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Feb 28, 2025, 4:16:04 PMFeb 28
to Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), Tim Cappalli, My1

And there is a huge chance that they won't.
I had once discovered a vulnerability where if you could manipulate your victim to install a malware, you could take control over their passkeys in real-time.

I discussed it with the security secretariat of FIDO, he directed me to WebAuthn WG. I raised an issue and there they claimed that it is out of their threat model. Yeah the vulnerability still exists and nobody took any action. 🫠


My1

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Feb 28, 2025, 6:14:24 PMFeb 28
to Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), Tim Cappalli
what I mean is what does the information of that a fingerprint was used help if someone who knows the PIN just adds their own fingerprint?

that would just make the process midly more inconvenient.

and while apps can detect if a new fingerprint was added, using that to lock out passkeys does not seem like a great idea.

My1

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Feb 28, 2025, 6:16:05 PMFeb 28
to Pro Coder 101, Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), Tim Cappalli
that's why there are physical FIDO Devices like Yubikeys and stuff, unless you manipulate the victim into building a lego technic thing with malware and the capability to press capacitive buttons, you wont be easily accessing those.

Pro Coder 101

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Feb 28, 2025, 6:17:28 PMFeb 28
to My1, Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), Tim Cappalli

Yeah. Just on a side note, for this reason, India govt developed a whole RD Service to work with the national identity card (Aadhar) that cannot be manipulated as such and works on all phones and laptops (you need to get a certified reader for that tho.)

My1

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Feb 28, 2025, 6:47:07 PMFeb 28
to Pro Coder 101, Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), Tim Cappalli
so the Indian card basically gets the fingerprints registered onto the card when it is made?

Pro Coder 101

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Feb 28, 2025, 6:48:53 PMFeb 28
to My1, Vladyslav Bondarenko, FIDO Dev (fido-dev), Tim Cappalli

Kinda true. The fingerprints templates are stored in a Govt DB. And the card number just maps to the primary key.

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